Public opinion reveals significant polarization regarding the Iran-Israel conflict and nuclear threats, characterized by a mixture of fear, skepticism, and outrage. Many commenters criticize perceived biases in media coverage and question the legitimacy of military actions, while advocating for diplomatic resolutions and recognizing historical grievances. There is a strong call for peace and self-defense rights for Iran alongside frustrations over ongoing violence and hypocrisy in nuclear capabilities narratives.

Iran

Israel

Western Media

U.S. Government

Pakistan

If they wanted to destroy Israel they could accomplish that by buying an existing nuke for less money than developing their own or by launching enough non nuclear missiles if they have the capacity to launch an ICBM.

Iran is a theocracy but they dont want to be a former theocracy. They understand if they nuke a country their country will get nuked and a large amount of their people and economy lives in Tehran. 

This is called the theory of mutually assured destruction. They want international influence and power. Having a nuke is protection but could never be anything more when other countries have nukes. They are in a region where several countries have nukes (Pakistan and India) abd the US would definitely launch nukes in response l.

They also mostly just currently and previously have wanted nuclear energy capabilities to expand their economy and to become a regional energy provider. Iran is an energy economy. 40% of their economy is electricity and natural gas. They want to expand that mostly.

draculabakula

I think 'our opponents are ontologically evil monsters that aren't rational and can't be treated like normal people' is a very common bit of propaganda to justify treating them less than normal people.

It is absurd to me that you try and claim North Korea is more rational than Iran, especially since it is based entirely on your assumptions about his motivations based on him being a religious cleric.

Hellioning

I can probably name a dozen reasons they might want nukes, and none of them are mutually exclusive. In the modern world, states want nukes. It benefits them a lot to have nukes.

So, I’m not objecting to your “destroy israel” comment, I’m objecting to your “not as a deterrent” part. Those arent mutually exclusive

Altho I will say any modern state that initiates nuclear war had better have enough nukes for everybody if they want to keep existing afterwards. As much as they suck, Iran’s gvmt does seem interested in self preservation

RickyNixon

Well, given the geopolitics of the time - just look at what happened to Ukraine - it is clear that for any country with hostile neighbors, nukes are a necessity if you want to deter trouble. Any guarantee by the nuclear powers is useless as long as the UN veto exists.

This is especially so for a country like Iran which has limited allies - certainly none that would go to war for them.

There's no reason to automatically assume Iran is simply homicidal instead of wanting the option to defend themselves from more powerful hostile neighbors.

Any country that uses nukes as a first strike is fucked. Everyone knows that. Even theocrats. There are religious nutcases who will pull suicide attacks, but those types rarely make it that high in the government. The types that are smart enough to get into power want to live more than they want to kill their enemies.

RavensQueen502

Iran could literally bomb Israel through overwhelming the iron dome as they've shown clearly literally yesterday, and yet they only do so as retaliation and are quite restrained in their targeting. Idk how that signals that they'd nuke Israel if they could, they could do a lot more damage than they do now and simply don't do it

__akkarin

You might be right that they are evil but are they stupid? It Doesn’t matter how nationalistic or anti-israel they are, nuking any country not just israel means that they would be wiped off the map too. This is a bluffing game at its finest.

Your argument seems to be a emotional one meant to manipulate us

dxvviddd

Benjamin Netanyahu is on record since the early 1990s saying that Iran is weeks or years away from developing nuclear weapons. He has had the exact same speech, the exact same type of statements and not a single person has called him out on it, especially in the western mainstream media. In 2002 he gave a speech to our Congress where he said that if you take out Saddam it will have positive reverberations throughout the region. It is a known fact that Israel heavily pushed for the United States to attack Iraq. In that same speech in 2002 he said that we should also do the same thing to Libya, Syria, Lebanon, and Iran.And ever since 2002 there are numerous occasions where he claims the same thing that Iran is years away from a nuclear weapon.

Sitar21

Israel would not be as bold to assassinate Iranian officials, bomb Iranian consulates and bomb Tehran if Iran had nuclear weapons. Israel has shown time and time again to be an aggressive, rogue state in the region who only responds to military might. They

Stubbs94

Look, the Iranian government sucks, but this whole "the Mad Mullahs would nuke MUH WEST and MUH ISRAEL" talking point is utter nonsense. Iran wants nukes as a deterrent, not as an offensive weapon.

DrWaffle1848

I'm not even bothering to read the text past the title. Utter nonsense that Iran would nuke Israel.

For one, that would make the area uninhabitable, the area which the Palestinians plan to have.

Two, it would probably make Jerusalem uninhabitable (if not outright destroyed), which no Islamic regime is going to do. A secular nation might, but an extremist Islamic regime isn't about to hit anything near Jerusalem with a nuclear bomb of all things.

Finally, the Iranian regime isn't stupid enough to risk getting nuked back.

What Iran wants is freedom from foreign interference, and Pakistan is proof that if you have nukes, the whole world will not interfere and will even provide funds to keep you stable, lest the nukes fall into the wrong hands.

Maybe if the US didn't have a very long history of foreign interference, Iran wouldn't be looking at nukes. Just a thought.

-Notorious

If North Korea can keep it in its pants, so can Iran. The thing likely holding them back is the same, if they were to use nukes, they’d get nuked. Iran knows Israel and the US would use nuclear force in relation to any nuclear attack on Israel like North Korea knows the US would strike them if they struck South Korea.

FerdinandTheGiant

given the deep ties betwen the israeli government and the jewish religion would not the same argument be made about why iran can't allow israel to have nukes. remember officially israel does not have them yet.  by your logic wouldn't tehran have a moral imperative against a millenia old enemy in the jewish people to prevent israel getting nukes at any cost?

duelistjp

You are an Israelli saying they want to destroy you while your government is killing innocents. I have nothing against you, but your nation/government is an occupying power killing those who simply have a different culture, belief system, ethnicity, etc. Israel is commiting genicide, and they struct Iran first. They have a right to feel threatened and funding proxy groups is no different then how the US does things. Thats probably where they got the idea from seeing it was done in Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. 

Israel has how many nukes? Iran has how mamy? 
Mutually assured destruction or M.A.D is what leverage another nation to not use them. They protect sovereignty at the trade off of extinction if used, unless the other party doesnt have them. 

Are you aware Israel made statements that if they didn't have U.S bunker missiles they would have needed used their nukes to hit their bunkers?
Does this sound like a deterrent, or does it sound like someone who wants to have continue to have power and will use any means to do so?

To be as blunt as possible your people are involved, and instead of acting with empathy you are acting with fear. Have you considered thinking what a Palestinian child might feel, or think? What an Iranian citizen feels when they see your country building open air prisons and starving Muslims? 

Lastly, you cannot even critque another government when yours is apartheid in nature and actively cleansing an ethnicity. Israel is a theology just like Iran, get off your high horse. Your country has destablized the Middle East, you stole for the things you have(nukes), and now you want to play victim? 

Also before former President Joe Biden left office, we did a display of force and bombed their missile reserves, and enrichment facilities in the mountains of Iran. Was this recent force really necessary as enrichment is such a time consuming process? Did Israel need to kill all Iranian officials and their families? 

I would strongly argue Iran wanted nukes as a means of deterence as for the past 60 some years they have been invaded, controlled, and bombed by foreign powers. They live right next to the worlds second biggest aggressor at the moment, Israel. It makes all the sense in the world to have a deterence and they would lose everything from using it. Also Israel is using biblical quotes to justify their actions, killing woman and children. Iran does the same, so any statement of freedom fights or jihad type shit can be said about Israel as well.

AssignmentMammoth450

Back when George w made that axis of evil statement,those in that axis pursued the ability to protect themselves from us.this country is known to invade other countries over lies.Iraq for instance they were named and then invaded.people in this country think we are fighting wars to keep America safe,but in fact we’re fighting wars to make the wealthy more wealthy,at the expense of our young people’s lives.

Powerful-Cellist-748

CobraPuts

This is an intellectually weak argument.

Iran has showed restraint for over 30 years in regard to building a nuclear weapon. They even have a fatwa against it. Iran doesn’t want to pursue something that would isolate it even more, as this wouldn’t serve their interests. The very evidence of them not making one in over 30 years and IAEA inspectors actively verifying that it doesn’t look like they’re gunning for a weapon is the very reason why this argument falls apart.

Now, though, is a very different story. Israel has gave Iran great incentive to pursue nuclear weapons because Iran technically doesn’t have an air force or sophisticated surface to air missiles. And Israel initiated this attack. And now, Iran sees that a bomb is the only effective way to ensure deterrence.

Israel has gave Iran a very legitimate reason to get a bomb now, and I would not doubt that Iran will more forward on that because of this attack. It was not only a stupid play by Israel, but a foolish one.

[deleted]

Well they certainly do now. They’ll never trust the US (much less Israel) to make a deal again. They’ll get one from next door within 6 months. History will remember Obama’s success and Trump and Netanyahu’s psychopathy.

013eander

Iran has been fairly rational in their actual foreign policy and far less belligerent than Israel, on the global stage. Whether Iran would like to destroy Israel, or whether that’s just the usual rhetoric, they do want to live. Any nuclear strike on Israel would undoubtedly bring an equal or greater nuclear strike from Israel and the United States. Iran is almost certainly just seeking a deterrent. 

Your government is expansionist and has to propagandize its population to keep its citizens in line. Don’t believe everything the state and its very friendly media outlets tell you.

alohazendo

Just look at what happened to any Nation that gave up their weapons see: Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, Syria. 


No one wants to be Gaddafied. North Korea for example having a nuclear weapon means that the US and South Korea will never step foot into North Korea uninvited. Iran was also negotiating with the US for Non-Weapons grade enrichment. 


Coordinating with Israel for this attack has not only shown the Iranians that the US can't negotiate in good faith, but other nations that It would be in their interest To not bargain with the US.


Also free Palestine

Vepper

Yes, and so what?

Israel refused to sign the NPT for 50 years, when Iran had accepted to sign it. So, israel is the first to have dwelled on the "lets have nuke" path. Israel still hasnt recognized officially having nukes to this day, even tho its estimated that you possess 80 to 100 nuclear heads.

In front of the moral you are trying to use, israel is the problem here, isnt it? Refusing a treaty, lying about having them, accusing iran of having it etc..

Israel has been accusing Iran of possessing the nuclear bomb since before I was born, so its one of two things. Either Israel has lied, and therefore they cannot be trusted. Or israel said the truth, yet iran still hasnt nuked israel in over 35 years (Earliest accusations ive found) and them having it isnt that much of a problem. 

Does iran have a will to destroy israel? Sure. But the same way Israel plans to nuke the surrounding countries if they feel like it, it will only come with provocation.

DrummerAutomatic9523

Israel attacks Iran, destroys it's infrastructure, kills it's scientists, decapitates it's command multiple times over the past 20 years and you believe Iran is the loose canon?

If you don't like the way Iran treats it's women, perfect no problem. You are allowed to have an opinion. But guess what? It's not your country. Nothing you say think or do will, or should, have any influence on Iranian culture. If Iranians feel the religious revolution was a failure (They do) want to rebel against the oppression their society faces then it's up to Iranians to do so. If you want to support them great. But you can't lead a reformation without being part of the group that you are advocating to reform.

  
Furthermore, everything you see as an outsider of a country is politically motivated. You will never have the full context without going to the country or speaking to it's people and interacting with it's culture on a regular basis. How can you imply Iran is evil without knowing anything about Iran and with your only sources of information not coming from Iranian's themselves, but a Government that is hostile towards the nation? Seems to me like there is a lot of bias and one sided information in that blind belief in the American Government and other Western puppet Governments like the UK.

Iran only attacks Israel when Iran is attacked first. Why? Because that is the religious and philosophical approach of Iran. In Islam the only person that can call for an offensive war is the Khalifa. There has not been a Khailfa since Mustafa Ataturk removed the last Khalifa from power in 1924 therefor (true) Muslims the world over can not start an offensive war.

Iran is not a terrorist organization. Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organization yes, but it is an always has been a Saudi proxy. ISIS was condemned by all Muslims as a terrorist organization masquerading as Islamic. Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi just decided to proclaim himself Khalifa and went to war with majority Muslim nations. Why would a Muslim group need to go to war with Muslim nations to claim territory? Exactly. 

Netanyahu is an international criminal, here is [his arrest warrant](https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu) from the ICC. IDF is defined as a terrorist organization by it's own people. So you tell me who is the real evil here? Is it Iran that is constantly attacked, physically by Israel and culturally by America? Simply because America can't stand there are other ways of thinking beyond the single minded American ideology that has lead to so much pain in the world? That is what's really unacceptable. Attacking a country, attempting to over throw it's Government and change it's culture to match your ideology by imposing your views onto them. Regardless of how "Righteous" you believe it to be. 

Israel is the aggressor in the region and always has been. They always will be until they take all the territory in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and the rest of the Arab states to form greater Israel. Why should anyone allow Israel to take their nation from them passively? Because anyone who resists is labeled a terrorist or is made into an international pariah like Iran. 

Not liking someone's culture does not give anyone the right to call for the destruction of their country or label them as "evil". You do not have the full context. You are not an Iranian. You don't interact with Iranian culture and people on a regular basis. Why is Iran "Evil" while Israel is justified in it's self defense with over 90 Nukes supplied by the US? You do not understand the Iranian way of thinking and culture. You can't state Iran will attack first, it has not and will not.

ReclusiveEagle

I believe that Israel is able to act like bully because they have a strong military and a Big US stick under their control. When Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they may punish Israel for their Pearl Harbor Sneak attack, but I doubt they would use a nuclear weapon unless Israel does. Personally, I hope Iran gets a nuclear weapon so Israel  won’t have the freedom to continuously attack their neighbors without harsh punishment.

rkieltyka

A lot of people’s entire worldview is tied up in believing this, you’re probably one of them as well. I’m not sure there’s any changing it. You fundamentally believe in the validity of western-coded nations like Israel over more sanctioned nations like Iran

weird_mountain_bug

Every sovereign state has the right to defend itself. CMV

1BannedAgain

Israel has 80 nukes. Kind of collapses your entire argument, guy who is definitely not doing propaganda.

ZERV4N

Is this some Israel psyop on reddit right now? 

This is the 4th one of these "Israel is right to destroy Iran" posts on CMV today. Where are the mods? Why so many duplicate posts allowed?

Cartire2

All arguments are moot. NOBODY should dictate which country should/shouldn't have nukes. Especially not the nation's who already have nukes. If Iran attempts and successfully develops nuclear weapons as a sovereign nation, no one has the right to question it.

TheBigShitowski

Why is there a surge of pro Israel posts flooding the CMV today?

Is this the modern propaganda mechanisms lol?l

CrowdSourcer

The - likely - main reason they want nukes, is to protect against regime change. 

You’ve had multiple Western-backed regime changes in the area: Afghanistan, Iraq. Syria and Lebanon to some degree, as well as Egypt.

Most importantly, though, you’ve had Western-backed regime change in Iran. The US and UK supported deposing a democratically elected leader to replace them with a brutal dictator, only 70 years ago.

Now combine this, with the rhetoric coming out of the West - remember McCain chanting “bomb Iran” - and the Iranian regime have well-founded fear of being deposed.

What is the ultimate regime change deterrent? Nukes. Look at North Korea. 

I find that to be a much more compelling rationale, than believing the Iranian regime will attack Israel with nukes, also dooming themselves. 

redthrowaway1976

Which country has openly threatened to destroy the entire world again? 

Past-Coach1132

The israelis are the ones with nukes already and theyve been the aggressor in this conflict, committing assassinations and bombings for years. An Iranian nuke would act as a deterrent from israeli aggression.

antisocially_awkward

With all the justifications and rationales you provide as being in existential dread as an Israeli, the fact of the current matter is that the State of Israel has turned to commercial intelligence approaches for persuading the world that it is acting on its right to defend itself. 

The claim that Iran mobilized nuclear weapon-building teams following the October 7 massacre, and had plans to distribute nukes to terrorists, sounds like an geopolitical comedic insult to people's intelligence, but it provides nominal cover for an "emergency" war theater in Iran. 

I myself look forward to the capitulation of the Islamic State abusing Iran, however securing world peace never requires falsifying conditions on the ground, or underground. 

I think the Jewish State had invested so much into mobilized military intelligence in and on Iran over the last few years, they didn't want to forego the optional return on sunk costs, so turned to the likes of palantir to hash up a storyline about imminent nuclear weapons developments in Iran. 

Geopolitics by Hollywood is a failed strategy for national security

Mysterious_Start_207

The last time Iran offensively attacked another country was hundreds of years ago. The last time Israel attacked a country was. \*checks notes\* now. And they've been doing it time and time again since their inception. And you think Iran would suddenly not only attack a country unprovoked, but just randomly drop a nuke on it? I get that you're Israeli and are probably subject to more propaganda than most of us here, but come on. Take off the white and blue glasses and see what's really going on. Read about how the Balfour Declaration was signed. Read about your own military policies. Read about the death tolls and timelines from every offensive that Israel launched. Read about the countless lives and families its toxic theocratic Zionist lunacy has destroyed.

so_flayme

If Iran were to acquire and then launch nuclear weapons at Israel it would be a collective act of (jihadist) "martyrdom" because not only would Israel nuke Iran, so would the United States (in all likelihood).  Therefore, there is no threat of Iran developing nuclear weapons because if they really were delusionally fixated on "jihadist martyrdom" why would they wait until they get nuclear weapons?  Wouldn't Iranian martyrs be a major problem the world over?  I mean, I assume there have been some - and they have funded Hamas and Hezbollah - but to be delusional fixated on "jihadist martyrdom" would probably produce a lot more direct acts by Iranians.  Additionally, Iranians are Shi'a Islam and Sunnis are the ones who produce the overwhelming majority of "suicide bombers" and the like - Al Qaeda, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas are all Sunni.

It's quite possible Iran wants nuclear weapons to deter a potential invasion to take their 4th largest oil reserves in the world and it is quite possible Israel and the US don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons so they can't deter a potential invasion to take their 4th largest oil reserves in the world.

Not that I support the Iranian regime - I just don't believe the narrative.

TrueSonOfChaos

It's really hard to take this fearmongering about Iran seriously when Netanyahu seems to be doing most of the provocation in the region. I'm no fan of Iran obviously, I'm an atheist and it's a theocracy, but they've had a pattern of not escalating shit beyond tit-for-tat lately that Netanyahu absolutely doesn't. Why am I constantly being told they're the big threat when they seem to be more escalation-avoidant than your own government?

pierogieman5

You worry that Iran wants to destroy Israel.

We know for certain that Israel wants to destroy Iran. More importantly the USA wants to destroy Iran and has had a plan to do so using Bibi and Israel since 2009.

[https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06\_iran\_strategy.pdf](https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06_iran_strategy.pdf)

Chapter Five.

So the death and destruction that Israel and her people are causing and suffering is because the USA is using Israeli incontinence to further US hegemonic goals.

Iran wanted to be left alone. It hasn't been seeking nuclear weapons. If it had been it could have had them anytime in the last ten years or so. But knew that if it did that, the USA would directly attack and try to destroy Iran. Even though the USA knows even a nuclear armed Iran can't reach the USA. Says so in the paper I cited. Iran does not have the necessary long range ballistic missiles.

Israel sees Iran as a threat because Israel choose to govern people that did not consent to Israeli government. So Israel committed the Nakba and has been fighting a rebellion against Israel's rule for 77 years now.

In spite of Israel's aggression Iran did not attack Israel.

Israel preemptively attacked Iran, just like the USA maneuvered Israel into doing following the plans drawn up in 2009 to use Bibi and Israel's population to incite a war with Iran.

Please read the policy paper. Chapter five is remarkably consistent with current events, and was written sixteen years or so ago. Because all this has been planned by the USA.

BlogintonBlakley

Iran seems to be more level-headed and forward thinking than Israel. Consider Israel's many, many, many efforts to draw them into conflict and get the US to destroy Iran for them. Iran has correctly assessed the situation, the provocations, and the consequences, and kept themselves from being drawn into things. 

This alone demonstrates more coherent and realistic politics than Israel engages in. 

I don't like theocracies, I agree they're bad- but we are currently seeing that democracies don't guarantee much either. And Russia isn't making a great case for the autocrats either. 

Sure, the *next* mullah might be worse, and this one might go senile before he dies and who knows what will happen then- but all of that applies to any other government.

CosmicLovepats

This whole thing reeks of propaganda. Nation states have no morals. The use for nukes from smaller nations has never been aggressive but defensive. Libya gave up their nukes and the US ousted their regime in less than a year. The Iraqis gave up any way to get nukes and we watched the US do the same thing to them. Ukraine gave up their nukes on the agreement that Russia would respect their sovereignty with the aid of the US and now they're being invaded by Russia (while the US turns it's back on them). North Korea refuses to give up nukes out of fear of the US. The truth is that at the level of nation states the leaders and regimes do not act by ideology but power. What will lose them power and what will gain them power (like poker chips).

Yonsei_Oregonian

Israel hasn't signed NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) and while everyone assumes/knows that Israel has nukes, it remains vague about it.  For this reason, Israel has no right to ask Iran to abandon its nuclear program.  From this perspective, Iran has signed NPT, so it's actually a better peace keeper than Israel.  IMO, the fair and effective way for Israel to get Iran to abandon its nuclear program is to declare its own and offer to, together with Iran, declare and abandon nuclear programs.  You can't say "i am better than you because you're evil and god is on my side so i get to keep nukes, but you can't."  That's how you get wars, and well, that's what we're having, so it is Israel's fault since it instigated!

Middle_Protection637

Israel attacked Iran unprovoked. Iran has a right to defend itself. This is just Zionist propaganda.

SoftFulfillment

Why is it ok for Israel to have nukes?  Is it to destroy Iran? If US said use those nukes on Iran would they?

I'm not either side just a bystander, I think no country on this word needs nukes, I get the development can be used for electricity USA do iRan might have israel too. Really if one country has one why can't other both sides don't really want to use it, its very hypocritical for country with x to not let anyone develop one when you did.

Country I live in will never build one I'm sure they could but why our people be more outraged to why just to store say we had one, eyes then focus on you.

We need peace if people keep bombing or attacking because they think this could happen nothing will ever stop.

nvcheeko

Mammoth-Priority6916

Iran agreed to a deal that effectively prevented them from developing nuclear weapons in 2015.

Why would they do that if they were hell bent on nuking Israel at any cost?  What are sanctions to the zealotry you're attributing to its leaders?

In March Gabbard disclosed that US intel still assesses that Iran is not developing nukes.

https://jewishinsider.com/2025/03/gabbard-iran-is-not-currently-developing-nuclear-weapons/

Again, strange behaviour for a government bent on collective destruction.

It seems obvious to me that they wanted to be nigh-nuclear, but not actually cross the line unless up against it via a US invasion or some such. Israel may have just tipped them over the line.

scientician

What would have happened to them if they used it?

Why do we believe Israel when they did not bring any evidence of these weapons? There's no evidence to indicate that, and nothing is coming out of the IEUA, the US government, or other governments... and that is according to Ex British ambassador.. as well as the VP Middle East institute, former CIA Persian-gulf military analyst and former gulf security affairs at the national security council

Why did we believe Israel 2003 when they claimed WMDs in Iraq? And why do we believe them now when we destroyed the Middle East, just to not find any WMDs?

Why do we keep protecting Israel from threats it creates on itself?

ApprehensiveAd7586

Its way more likely they would launch the nuke into space than directly at Isreal. Launching a nuke in space would cause a global EMP that could take out the majority of the world's electrical capacities. 

I wouldn't be surprised for the theocracy to "want" to go back to a less industrialized planet where they might have a stronger foothold in their region.

imhugeinjapan89

I can’t believe people who think this way. Seems so brainwashed. What nuclear country uses nuclear weapons routinely? Russia is a bad actor and not fucked with militarily because they have nuclear weapons. 

It’s crazy to me how much Israel dominates US politics. Watching old videos of Netanyahu speaking to congress in the 90s about how Iran is a year away from a nuclear weapon. He spoke to congress in 2003 i believe advocating for US  invasion of Iraq and how it can stabilize the region. 

Can you set aside your priors and think about this objectively?

DrEspressso

Oh Jesus Christ, this is the third Hasbara post I’ve seen on this sub today

suitorarmorfan

The owning of nuclear weapons has increased exponentially since the 1940s. However, they have never been used against a population since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is because of Mutually Assured Destruction. We were told constantly in the US for decades about the threat of a nuclear North Korea but they have had them for nearly 20 years at this point. When is the last time you worried about Kim launching a bomb? Iran has no interest in actually using a nuke because they know that it would lead to their entire civilization being turned into dust.

dubzzzz20

Since 1985 they have been saying that Iran is months away from developing a nuclear weapon. 40 years of scaremongering and nothing to show for it. The West needs bogeymen to sell arms to the sheikhs and extort oil at favourable terms.  Israel as a bogeyman is good for the sheikhs and mullahs too. They can continue to rule through repression.  All of this happened after the opec oil crisis in the 70s. It's always about money and resources. Nobody gives a shit about anything else. I wish people fought for something else rather than the mundane.

chazthomas

Israelis tend to be very neurotic people. There's no way they could have a nuclear weapon in the possession of an enemy and not completely freak out over it, regardless of there being a chance they would use it or not. 

In that respect, the respect of being neurotic, your response is rational, but giving these reasons are laughable. 

No one would prefer an enemy having nuclear weapons within striking distance. Some people are built to deal with that threat, others will obsessively obsess over it ruining their own mental health and lives.

ManufacturerVivid164

If they're actually genocidal then why aren't they taking the stockpile of radioactive material and waste and using their missiles to spread that all over Israel?  It would have as big an impact on Israel's neighbors as a nuke and wouldn't obliterate their own religion's holy sites in the region.  It would turn the Israeli missile defenses from hope to horror as every missile caught rains radioactive shrapnel over a large area.

"They'd nuke Israel" doesn't make any sense given what they can do today, right now.

InMedeasRage

&gt;It’s difficult to imagine a country less suited to possess nuclear weapons than Iran, given the nature of its political and religious leadership.

I can imagine one. The only country that has ever used nuclear weapons, not once, but twice, against a civilian population. Nevermind who is in charge of that country right now...

I understand what you mean. Is not ideal, sure. In a perfect world, nobody would own this shit. But we are not launching attacks against all nuclear weapon owning countries, right?

In order to claim self defense, Israel still needs to show the rest of the world that this was not a free random act of agression (what Iran did with their attack a few months ago, for example), but an specific threat, a proof that the international community can review and check that an attack, an actual attack, was imminent. Israel so far has made no effort to explain itself and therefore remains a rogue country. Like Iran.

mendokusei15

Would yesterday occurred if Iran was already a nuclear power? The answer is no, and that means it would really act as a deterrent. 

Maybe Israel and USA should try to stop arming and training fundamentalist fanatics for once.... Has anyone tried to stop threatening and destroying the countries around Iran so Iran can stop feeling about to be invaded?? Afghanistan, Irak, Syria and Palestine, might be that Turkey be the very only direction where Iran is not in constant threat....

If Iran was legitimately considering nuking Israel, Mossad and the CIA would know before many Iranian government elites even would. Tehran, and any potential nuclear weapons sites, would be reduced to rubble immediately. 

If somehow they launched a missile, it would be taken down over Iraq or even possibly still within Iranian air space. 

Mutually assured destruction is the reality for any nation that even thinks about nuking another nuclear power. The Iranian government knows this and they are not going to sacrifice their nation just to take out Israel. They’re a theocracy sure, but they also want to retain their power and their lives. 

Acknowledging all of that, the only potential reason Iran would want to get nukes is to be able to say they have them and gain the power that comes with being a nuclear state. It marginally decreases the likelihood that Israel actually uses their nukes.

xSparkShark

This is the whole problem Israel has. When your legitimacy is propped up on occupying a region where you were never welcomed into and displacing an entire people who will go on to hate you for it, you will be paranoid about existential threats forever. You may think that the UN recognizing you as a real boy means you have a right to defend yourselves, but a lot of the world just sees you as complete assholes, and this is the climate you chose for yourselves. You're delusional to have thought it would ever look like anything but this.

And now your paranoia has you picking fights with your neighbors, and you haven't even finished the genocide you started. It's not going to end well for the 10 million people living there. The US is crumbling and eventually you're not going to be able to count on them anymore to keep you out of the find out phase of fucking around.

NotYourThrowaway17

&gt;In this context, allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons under its current theocratic regime poses a uniquely grave risk


This coming from a country using every Jew on Earth as human shields for any criticism of their genocide, conflating their fascist regime with every single Jew on the globe and suggesting that any condemnation of the fascist regime is a condemnation of Judaism itself...


Bad hasbara, OP. Try harder.

The world seems to want Israel destroyed now anyway. they would welcome a vengeful genosyde on everyone who lives in Israel. So what is Israel to do? Where do they go if they are overtaken? America will never take them in as refugees. Antisemitism and hardcore democrats/liberals would never help them. Should we just accept that terrorists have won the hearts and minds of the media?

MsB3hav3

so Israel can deny others from obtaining nuclear weapons whilst they themselves can have it?
it seems what want a monopoly on the power it has.

and why does Israel need nuclear weapons? its  obviously has not deterred any attacks on them.

If they want Iran to stop trying to get nuclear weapons, they need to balance the playing field and surrender the nuclear weapons it has.

Interesting_Ad_4843

As much as I hate Iran's government (and yours too), I don't think they're as extremist as this.

You are correct in saying that Iran wants to destroy Israel. But it sure as hell does not want to nuke it. 

Because that would mean Iran would be nuked next. What's the point then? Even a government like Iran's has a sense of self preservation and cares, at least a little, about its people.

I think your argument is purely coming from the need to justify and attack that your government initiated this time. And unfortunately right now, Bibi's government runs on war.

Also, this whole "Iran is getting their nukes ready soon trust me in like a few weeks" rhetoric has been going on since 1992.

excuseme-wtf

Iran should be able to have nuclear weapons. It is hypocritical for a nuclear power to tell other countries that they cannot become nuculear powers. The ayatollaha regime has never been particularly bellicose and there is no reason to think that they would have a greater or lesser temptation to use 'the bomb' than any other country.

DrawPitiful6103

Iran's immediate neighbors have all suffered the undue influence of foreign powers. This is a long history of Iran having to fend off being annexed to both USA and USSR's "sphere of influence" and becoming a subordinated player in the area. 

Iran has suffered greatly in the war against Iraq, and have had to subordinate it's own interests due to the wars (plural) conducted by the super powers in Afghanistan. 

Furthermore Iran has suffered foreign-instigated replacement of regime. 

more importantly, Iran has seen that the super powers are very willing to plop their troops and bases in it's area and just do whatever and tell it to shut up. 

Specifically we have the wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, where the super powers intervene whilst using Iran's airspace and resources at will. Of specific importance is Iran's forced compliance by the USA in being a corridor for the Afghan Opium trade. 

Iran, while it is committed to trying to pin it's neighbors down through insurrection promoting, and use that to quietly grow, does have from it's perspective a legitimate need for a "US-deterrent" that is actually workable against the USA.

flukefluk

I’d argue that survival is the supreme leaders number one goal. Why would they use nuclear weapons on Israel when that would guarantee a nuclear response. Not to mention that would probably kill a large amount of Arabs as well.  

I’m sure they’ve taken note on how north Korea has been treated since acquiring them.

Isamu982

There is mutual and understandable distrust between the two. I am of the opinion Iran wants nukes to protect itself from Israel. Whether you think they have something to fear or not, what’s important is what Iran believes. It’s been the same for every nation with historical adversaries. USA - USSR.  India - Pakistan.

MaxwellSmart07

I could not think of a country less suitable for holding nuclear weapons than Israel. A country responsible directly for the deaths of over 40000 civilians and indirectly for millions by cajoling their western allies into invading multiple of their Arab neighbours. Can you think of any less suitable nuclear power?

Fresh_Information_42

Iran has explicitly stated many times over that their goal is the total destruction of Israel, and that they are working to make that happen (plans etc). Even if that was all talk with no intention, they made their bed by saying it over and over again. If a nation states they want to and plan to destroy you, then works towards nukes, it would be a failure of the opposing nation to do nothing about it. 

I just don’t know what they expected honestly.

The only way I can change your view is that maybe consider it was a miscalculation of political theatre and was mainly deterrence and internal politics.

Shmeepish

Give it to them let them duke it with nukes win win

doomsday344

Half these CMV posts are Zionist psyops. Please CMV. Iran hasn’t ever had nukes and still don’t have them. What would they gain out of destroying Israel? Can anyone explain to me what they would actually gain. This is the same recycled bullshit every time the “west”/ US&amp;Or Israel wants to attack Iran.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx777

Israel is the main problem on the Middle East. They have nuclear weapons but they don’t want anyone else to get it. They are killing a lot innocent people in the Middle East. I as many Americans do, believe that Iran has a right to defend itself.  I used to be a supporter of Israel but not anymore.

Short_Wolverine2681

It all boils down to the white supremacist (Israel) being allowed to have nuclear weapons, but not Iran, who should take a lesson from Ukraine and keep their weapons. It's funny that IDF being terrorist is perfectly acceptable. The whole Middle East should be blown up....now fight over dust

Chastity-76

Do you realize that as an Israeli, you're a colonizer or not? Don't you realize that you're the same as the French colonizers on Algeria, some of them born there, and considering Algeria as their country? Your view is not valid as an Israeli. You're the bad guy here. You're the colonizer.

sachouta

To be fair, 10 years ago, they just wanted nuclear power. And the US had a good deal to help keep them on that track and away from weapons. 

One of the many things this country has screwed up in the last decade. Now we’ve given Iran a reason to renew their nuclear weapons program.

jadnich

No one wants to nuke anyone. Having a nuke in today's geopolitics means you can have sovereignty. Iran wants sovereignty, Israel/US wants control of Iran and the rest of the region to fatten their deck of cards. Hence they're claiming WMDs a la war on terror circa 2003

SloppyJoMo

Having nukes is one thing, using them is another thing. 

Everyone thought Kim Jong Un was going to nuke the world by now, but he hasn't. 

Even dictators are not that suicidal. 

They want nukes simply because it gives them bargaining power against the US. They would use them to try to bully Israel and the US, “do what we want or we nuke you”. They don't have the same amount of money or technology as these countries so the only way they compete against them is through force.

iustinian_

Perhaps we should not be as worried about nuclear weapons as we are drone technology. Tiny drones can sneak through into any country easily, there are likely some in every country. There are drones literally shaped like bugs that you can purchase.

Intertravel

On the surface Iran would be stupid to launch a nuclear warhead from their country if they every got their hand on one. 

Ignoring that, what are the odds that one or two unknown nuclear weapons end up with hamas, hezbollah, or some other radical group. 

I’m sure Iran and other countries would be gleeful as fuck if a nuclear bomb somehow got into Gaza and then detonated in Israel. 

As it stands they have no problems giving g them any other weapon. 

Emotional_Pay3658

The israeli nukes are not in israel, but rather in submarines located far from israel.


If they fire at israel- israel will fire back, and destroy the regime/start ww3.


Basically- iran only loses if they launch the nuke first.

Effective_Jury4363

It's for deterrence. The US and Europe failing to protect Ukraine is exact proof that you can only secure your sovereignty with nuclear weapons. Ukraine is literally evidence that proves Iran and North Korea's arguments. 

Critical_Sir25

No, but it doesn't matter. Words have meaning.  And if they say "we want to kill Jews" but just want to join the Nuclear Invasion Proof Club, Israel has every right to interpret *"we want to kill all Jews"* at face value.

OldschoolGreenDragon

Iran will not wipe out al aqsa(surely those religious fanatics must have no problem with suicide right, but ofcourse they won't do such a harm to their religion) what mental gymnastics will you show us now? It'll only be used if their existence is threatened and that's justified. Now sit down

UnbannableGuy___

And why would Iran launch nukes on Israel that has its own nukes and is essentially US military base? I don’t doubt Iran hates Israel, now with more reasons than before, but I doubt they are actually suicidal.

SuperVaguar

Wait, if israel is getting nuked by iran wouldn’t Palestinians die by an iranian nuclear strike? And the holy city of jerusalem would also get destroyed. It doesn’t make sense for iran to nuke israel.

United-Statement4884

People are living in such delusions—it is stunning. They create their own fantasies in their mind, a hyper reality, and live in that space for eternity. No connection to the real world at all.

sonucan91

Yea, it’s not the west that’s been aggressors in various global conflicts(even amongst themselves) over last century and change. Everyone else are scary boogeymen that need to be bombed.

Bast_OE

1. I think it’s extremely unlikely the US puts boots on the ground to occupy Iran, even if the alternative is Iran getting the bomb. The American public has no appetite for another full scale war in the Middle East, and invading Iran would be even more of a mess than anything we’ve done before. An air campaign seems like the limit of what the US will realistically do in terms of direct involvement. 

2. The US could stop the nuclear program with a full scale invasion and occupation, but as I said above, that’s very unlikely to happen. Between airstrikes, espionage, assassinations and sabotage, the US and Israel can slow down their progress towards a bomb, but I’m really not optimistic in those methods slowing Iran down by more than a few months. Ultimately the weaponization research can be done in classrooms and small workshops spread out across the country. Iran has a highly educated population with thousands of scientists that can contribute to the research. Of course, it’s worth noting that we don’t know whether Iran is actually going to make a sprint towards the bomb. All intel up until the recent strikes suggests that Khamenei has not given the order to restart the weaponization program. 

3. No. There are some hardline “pro-regime change at any cost” voices in the US government, but by and large Americans would much rather tolerate a nuclear Iran than send American troops to die on Iranian soil. 

4. No. I don’t believe Iran’s nuclear program poses a meaningful existential threat to myself living in America in the same way I don’t find North Korea’s nuclear arsenal a significant existential threat. Even if Iran develops ICBMs that can reach the US (which I suppose will happen given enough time), I don’t see why Iran won’t be subject to the same MAD logic that has kept all nukes from being launched for the past 80 years. Fearmongering about Iranians being suicidal religious lunatics who want to destroy the world is just that, fear mongering. Iranians have a strong sense of national pride and they aren’t going to willingly take an action that guarantees the destruction of their entire civilization.

oskanta

Anything worth bombing once is worth bombing 17 times out of

iryanct7

Why is the assumption that boots on the ground are needed to stop an Iranian nuclear program?

commentinator

Nuclear Fission is pretty old technology at this point so ultimately I can’t see how they can prevent it bar completely occupying the country. Developed countries that don’t have nuclear weapons do so in the knowledge that allies have them and that they could make their own reasonably quickly if state resources were sent that way.

Healey_Dell

I don’t think it would be necessary to fully invade Iran to stop it from developing nukes. Regime change would probably do the trick just fine, and to get the ball rolling all you’d really need is a dedicated air campaign. The US and Israel have shown themselves perfectly capable of capable of carrying that campaign out, so I don’t think it’s a question of ability. Changing Iran’s goverment to one more friendly to the US and Israel would eliminate the “need” for Iran to develop nukes, so just by default they would stop and pursue other things.

Minimum-Enthusiasm14

The issue is Iran is not a rational actor. The actors that have historically had access to superweapons were relatively rational and understood the dangers of utilizing such a weapon. The only time possession of such capability was not bounded to such logic was when only America had the weapon—and even then, Americans did not irrationally utilize it knowing the power they commanded.

MAD relies upon rational actors. Introduce automation or irrational actors and all bets are off. 

The West learned the hard way what happens when you let someone framing their narrative for development of nuclear capabilities as peaceful is allowed to have enrichment and high neutron flux reactors. (Smiling Buddha in 1974—India) It has no intention of repeating that mistake—especially not with an irrational actor.

Fit-Rip-4550

If Iran gets a nuke and the capacity to use it all hostilities against them will cease and a ceasefire will be declared that never ends.

Unlikely_Tea_6979

God it’s such a catch-22 isn’t it. Because to answer your questions - basically no to all of them. Invading Iran would a horrendously stupid decision. At the same time, I *do* believe a nuclear-armed Iran is absolutely unacceptable and I see no way of achieving that diplomatically (I’m skeptical they’d have ever complied with a deal long-term to begin with; much harder to imagine that now).


I wish there was a magic regime change button that could flip Iran into a more rational form of government. Not really my business whether it’s secular, democratic, etc. - those questions are up to the Iranians, as long they aren’t a revolutionary terror state anymore. And I do think there are many Iranians who want to topple that government.

But alas, I don’t think we (the U.S.) or Israel can realistically hope to bomb, rally, or otherwise encourage Iranians to rise up. So yeah I don’t know what we should do. I just wish we had more intelligent, strategically-minded individuals in charge of these decisions.

seen-in-the-skylight

North Korea has had a bomb for a while, as has Pakistan's various unstable regimes. Nothing has happened there. I'd guess if Israel fails to once again drag the USA into its fight again everyone would just forget about it and move on with their lives. Every 10 years or so another skirmish breaks out between Iran's proxies and Israel as usual.

If Iran's leaders were as irrational as Israeli sources would have us believe you'd think they would've fired missiles at Israel a couple years ago not waited to be surprise bombed.

Nitros14

The only difference between America's "enemies" that it invades or topples and the "enemies" that it does not are nukes. If Iran wants sovereignty, they need nukes. Simple as that.
  
Iran may very well be invaded/toppled before they obtains nukes - but once they have them israel/america can't do shit other than sanctions.

Mores_The_Pity

1 month is a short time, but I assume you mean very close.

The US would definitely change the regeme and invade if necessary.

Iran not having a nuclear bomb goes deeper than everything else. There is a core of the world order of only the "super powers" can control the world and have muclear weapons. If others have it we would be progressively unsafe. It would cascade into every nation believing they need one.

Suddenly the super powers aren't powerful anymore and the world ends in the first mistake.

These other bombs are extra dangerous, because while super powers can deliver enough to exterminate the world even after their nation is hit multiple times, smaller nations can't, they need to lauch the weapons before being hit or risk not retaliating.

The world already almost ended a few times and we were saved by luck. Luck won't work forever.

Currently thr US has the power to topple Iran, but doesn't want to pay the money cost neither the caos cost of doing it.

I'm not American, but I think the current congress and regular Americans don't understand how important is for themselves for the US to continue to be the world police. They think its expensive, but abstaining frommdoing it may well be what breaks the nation.

gorebello

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